A Collaborative Journey – Some People Want to Shoot Me by Madelaine Dickie and Wayne Bergmann
Natalie de Rozario
Some People Want to Shoot Me is a collaboration that extends to a chorus of voices. From family, Kimberley Traditional Owners, politicians, historians—all contribute to the narrative which Madelaine and Wayne have articulately assembled.
The powerful four-year-long collaboration deep dives into the nuances of Wayne’s life experiences and Nyikina history. The book confronts the grip of legislation on Aboriginal communities in Western Australia, urging readers to understand the past to shape a better future.
Some People Want to Shoot Me is a testament to intercultural collaboration, resilience, and the power of storytelling.
Regional Arts WA was fortunate to interview Madelaine and Wayne during their time as Artist of the Month. Read the full interview below:
What sparked the decision to collaborate on this Some People Want to Shoot Me, and how did your individual backgrounds or expertise complement each other in the writing process?
MD: I loved working for Wayne at the Ambooriny Burru Foundation and also at National Indigenous Times. His mind runs a million kilometres an hour—he’s demanding, smart, intensely political and visionary. When he asked me to collaborate on this project I was delighted. I was able to use my background in fiction and storytelling to bring Nyikina history and Wayne’s life to the page in a way that’s fresh and compelling and doesn’t read like an ordinary biography.
WB: I hit a point in my life where I wanted to share some of the stories and journeys of what really happened. There were issues of vulnerability—who do I trust to tell the story properly. I knew of Mad’s style of writing, and I thought it would touch a broader, younger audience. I wanted young people who would be starting their life journey to read this book.
Image: Courtesy of Fremantle Press
In many cultures collaboration is a fundamental part of creating art. Could you walk us through the collaborative process of creating Some People Want to Shoot Me?
MD: Wayne and I worked together for four years on this book—an enormous project. In addition to hundreds of hours of conversations together, the book has also been shaped by dozens of interviews with Wayne’s family members, senior Kimberley Traditional Owners, politicians, academics, long term Broome residents, linguists, historians, lawyers, archeologists, and environmentalists. It is a collaborative work in a very true sense of the word.
WB: My wife Chris was crucial in this process. She was able to bring sensitivity and guidance to the things which should be included in this story. She gave the emotional check on what I was sharing. Chris was our sounding board, our regulator!
What do you hope readers will take away from your book, and how do you envision it contributing to the broader conversation within your field or genre?
MD: I hope readers will come away with an appreciation of the stranglehold that legislation has had over Aboriginal people in Western Australia. I also hope this book prompts a deeper interest in our history—when we don’t know our history, it’s impossible to know who we and how we can live better, more fairly and more ethically.
WB: I want readers to take away that to be successful, or to excel in Aboriginal affairs, you have to work very hard. Whenever I see Aboriginal people really excelling, I know under the surface are thousands of hours, years and years of hard work, to really get where they are. And yet, working hard doesn’t always guarantee success. Success also relies on relationships and politics. In my experience, I’ve found private enterprise and the commercial space much easier than working in Aboriginal affairs.
Can you highlight a specific anecdote or chapter from the book that you feel encapsulates the essence of your message, and how it has resonated with readers from various cultural backgrounds?
MD: There’s such a sad scene in the book when Wayne’s Nana Aggie gets to meet her grandmother for the first time. Nana Aggie and her siblings and her mum walked for miles and miles, right across a wide plain. They saw woman in the distance with a stick. The woman started beating herself—a traditional way to express grief. That woman was Muninga, Nana Aggie’s grandmother. Muninga’s daughter had been taken away from her. She’d never met her grandchildren, never met Nana Aggie, until now. I’ve got tears in my eyes thinking about this, even though it’s not my story. I became a mother while writing this book. While I had always understood about the Stolen Generations it’s not until you’re a mother that you can really imagine it. Imagine having your child taken from you. Imagine being told that you can’t look after them. Imagine being told that you can’t be trusted to look after them. This was the power of the legislation at the time. And this could be the power of legislation at any time—only it might not be someone else’s children they’re coming for, it might be your children. That’s why we need to understand history. That’s why we need to care about politics.
WB: Setting up KRED Enterprises and the Kimberley Aboriginal Pastoral Company (KAPCO) were two of the hardest things I did. I worked my guts out. I ran both to the wire. There were times I was only getting paid three days a week. But they succeeded. And success never comes when you give up. I was met with a lot of surprise, when KAPCO started doing well. Non-Aboriginal pastoralists didn’t say, hi Wayne, let me help you make this a success. They said—we’re all shocked you’ve made it!
Image: Courtesy of Fremantle Press
Can you share any memorable moments or challenges you encountered while working on this project, and how you overcame them to produce the final manuscript?
MD: Wayne and I work together well, so there were no challenges on that front! I did get frustrated by a couple of ghostings—people who superficially seemed interested in contributing to the book, then ignored multiple emails, or stood me up when we’d agreed to talk in person. Wayne’s politics aren’t for everyone, and that’s okay, I get that, but I would have liked honesty.
WB: A memorable moment for me was when we started doing that early historical research. I was really excited about matching my oral histories and the stories I’d been told with written historical facts. A challenge came when we started to research the pastoral industry. I can remember feeling horrified when I realised the level of abuse—documented abuse—that Aboriginal people suffered at the hands of the pastoralists. This was really hard.
Thank you to this incredible duo for being our March Artists of the Month at Regional Arts WA.
The official launch for the publication and conversation between the authors will be held on Thursday 11 April, from 5.30 – 7.30 pm at the WA Museum Boola Dardip. Register here: https://visit.museum.wa.gov.au/boolabardip/conversation-some-people-want-shoot-me
Image by Chris Bergmann
